Would you rather be an assertive woman or an obedient woman?
Would you rather have a relationship with an assertive woman or an obedient woman?
In most cultures, assertiveness is valued a lot more than obedience. This is certainly true with men. Obedient men are usually considered weak or womanly.
When it comes to women, however, things become less clear.
Source: Assertive or Submissive
Obedient Women, Culture, and Religion
Many Eastern cultures value obedient women a lot more than assertive women.
However, obedience in this case is more of an expectation or societal norm, rather than a choice. Obedience is not seen as anattractive quality that everyone should aspire to; certainly the men do not aspire to it. Instead, it is something that a good woman should be.
Western cultures have the same bias with regards to assertiveness being better than obedience, but there is less pressure for women to be obedient. Strangely however, Western religions, in particular Christianity and Judaism have similar expectations of obedience from women as do Eastern cultures.
Even more surprising is that Eastern religions such as Buddhism and Hinduism are more in step with Western culture, and do not demand obedience from their women.
Assertive vs. Obedient
Being assertive is a more valued property than obedience because evolutionary wise, assertive societies are more successful.
Assertive societies with strong leaders tend to gain more territory, capture more resources, and spread more of their culture than obedient or passive societies, which are more likely to become conquered.
As a result, our prevailing culture, is one that values being assertive over being obedient.
Assertive men and women are more likely to acquire and accumulate more resources than obedient men and women. Since evolutionary success is commonly used as a yardstick for measuring our lifetime success, it is the assertive people who win.
Is an Assertive Woman Superior to an Obedient Woman?
Because of this evolutionary perspective, many of us see assertive women as being superior to obedient women.
However, human society has progressed beyond this evolutionary directive that is fueled by conflict and survival. Today, we live in relativepeace, and most nations no longer harbor ambitions of land expansion and conquest. Instead, nations try to cooperate and trade for the betterment of all.
Since we are moving away from a model of conflict to a model of cooperation, it makes sense to re-evaluate the roles of assertive women and obedient women in our society.
Advantages of Obedient Women
1. Obedient women have a larger social circle.
Obedient women tend to have a larger circle of friends. They are less threatening, and much more enjoyable as companions because they are willing to go with the flow. In contrast, an assertive woman will create more strife and dissension.
As a result, obedient women have a larger support system, and are arguably happier because of the friendships that they naturally attract. Whenever there is a crisis, she can easily turn to her friends for comfort and support.
2. Obedient Women are compatible with more men.
Our prevailing culture is such that men are expected to lead and women are expected to follow. This usually gets enforced since childhood from children stories, school dynamics, as well as parental and societal expectations.
As a result, there are probably more assertive men, than there are obedient men.
Obedient women can get along with both types of men. Most obedient women prefer relationships with assertive men because they will complement each other’s strengths and weaknesses. However, because they are more easy going, obedient women can also forge successful relationships with more obedient men.
Assertive women, on the other hand, are likely to clash with assertive men, and as a result, have a smaller number of compatible mates to choose from.
3. Obedient women live a life with fewer conflicts.
Obedient women have a Zen-like nature. For the most part, they are happy to let others set the agenda, and they are happy to play a role in making that agenda a success.
This does not mean that the obedient woman will just take on a supporting role. In fact, she may assume the bulk of the heavy lifting to ensure that the plan succeeds.
An obedient woman prefers to take things as they come rather than try to bend things to her will. This natural Zen-like quality makes her life more worry free, and frequently leads to greater happiness.
However, as pointed out bycindyvine, this assumes that both people in the relationship care enough for each other that they want to keep mutual hurt to a minimum.
Unfortunately, if an obedient woman enters into a relationship with a self-centered male, who is also abusive, then she may find herself trapped under his barrage of attacks, with little alternative but to accept it.
In contrast a more assertive woman would have ended the bad relationship early on and saved herself a lot of pain.
4. Obedient women are able to live in greater harmony with the world.
Obedient women are usually better at resolving conflicts and living in harmony with the people around them.
In life, there will be many instances where conflict occurs. During times of conflict, somebody has to back down and take a more passive position. If this does not occur, the conflict will escalate and end up hurting everyone involved.
Opting to back away from a possibly explosive situation does not make an obedient woman weak. Rather, it is the most expeditious way to bring the conflict to an end and restore harmony with the least amount of emotional damage.
It is a mistake to assume that obedient women do not have any needs or goals of their own.
They simply value harmony over conflict and are willing to put their own egos on hold to achieve that harmony.
Advantages of Assertive Women
1. Assertive women are more successful at accumulating resources.
Assertive women are better at accumulating resources including money, fame, and material goods. There is a lot of competition for resources, so it takes an assertive personality to not only acquire those resources, but also to hold on to them.
Assertive women tend to hold high-powered jobs, and are comfortable leading large teams of men and women towards their vision of what is right.
2. Assertive women are more likely to bring on change.
Assertive women have their own vision of how things ought to be. They are also willing and able to do whatever it takes to achieve that vision.
When an assertive woman disagrees with current societal norms, she will not back down or be held back by criticism. Instead, she has the confidence and spirit to forge ahead and fight for change.
In the end, assertive women have done much to create a less repressive social environment for women everywhere. It is a good thing that we have women who will speak out for themselves and for all other women.
3. Assertive women are confident and sure of themselves.
Assertive women do not look to others for confirmation and approval. They are less concerned about what others think and want, and more concerned about their own needs and goals.
Confidence begets more confidence.
As a result, assertive women are able to fight through great adversity, and emerge with greater strength than before.
Assertive Women vs. Obedient Women
So which is better – assertive women or obedient women? Which should you aspire to be? Or which should you look for in a relationship?
Most women are not one or the other. They usually have elements of both. However, their temperament, upbringing, and experiences may push them towards one end or the other.
As with all things, balance is crucial. We do not want to be too assertiveand not give way when we should. We also do not want to be too obedient so that none of our own needs and goals are met.
Every individual has a different equilibrium assertive/obedient level, and this level may change as we change and the people around us change.
What is most important is to always be open to both of these qualities, and not just accept the flawed belief that being assertive is always superior.
So thrilled I stumbled upon you. Wish I had of and would have thought so in the 18 months here.
Not only really liked this hub but got me thinking of how much I have changed and why. very kewl.
Up until around 30, I was very aggressive, sometimes too much so. Fearless, determined, constantly travelling and was not ever swaying from ‘I say who, I say when, I say where, I say how’ approached. Clearly received very well and never steered me wrong.
At around 30 I was so tired. Ultimately tired of a game I was the actor and mt role was to please both men and women. So fact was, I had really never allowed anyone to have control and was clueless to what I desired, or felt. I continue to enjoy being passive, controlled and led, for many reasons but thank you for saying;
Your latest fan
Kimberly
Hi Kimberly,
Thanks for sharing your story with us.
I am more of an introvert, so I suppose I am ‘obedient’ in that way. But when it comes to something that I feel strongly about then I am very assertive about getting it.
I think what you say is exactly right – it will get tiring very quickly to always be fighting. In life, I have found that people who are more Zen and can go with the flow end up leading happier lives.
It is not in my nature to be Zen, but I try to be more so nowadays and it has definitely made a difference.
Thanks for dropping by and very good to meet you. 😀
I am struggling with the attempt to work both together. I believe that I was issued the wrong “handbook” when I was born. I am assertive, verging on aggressive. I work with all men. I hold my own.
This article really opened my eyes to some interesting facts that I never contemplated before. I am hoping that my MALE professor, with whom I am not able to communicate sees this as a reliable source for citation. I found it to be extremely helpful, even if he does not.
I thank you.
Thanks Sandee.
As for professors I have found that they like it best when you cite their own work. 😉
A little bit of both seems like the best deal
A well written and balanced analysis. I think a vast majority of men are comfortable with obedient women, by nature.
I like it both ways sweet Aya-chan. Either one gets boring over time, so the wisdom of a woman is to feel when to switch modes. Actually it refers to men, too 🙂
Misha, haven’t seen you around much lately. How are you?
Yes I think everyone is usually a blend of the two, but most people will tend towards one side or the other.
If I were to guess, I would have to say that you are more the assertive type 😉
I beleive both roles should be developed and encouraged, in both men and women. Women need to be assertive in certain situations in order to protect themselves and become successful in their own life.
While being passive in your love relationship might be attractive on certain levels, most men want a woman who will work with him as a partner and that would compel the woman to be assertive at least in some areas of their relationship.
There is always time and place to lead and a time and place to follow, whether it’s in your personal life or with your life partner. Finding the balance between the two is a beautiful thing. Unless of course you are talking about 24/7 lifestyle D/s roles which is a horse of a different color.
Men prefer softer women, so it isn’t always a good idea for a woman to boss her man, if he doesn’t want it.
There’s a time and place for both types all in the same package, so I couldn’t pick one or the other. I guess I’ll try both and get back to you.
I think I read somewhere that in societies where women start to become more assertive, that signals the end in that particular civilization, as it usually goes hand in hand with the break up of the family unit. I’m not sure if I agree with the idea that obedient women are stress free as it’s quite stressful trying to keep your man happy. Also, obedient wives do tend to attract abusive husbands. And control freaks, who treat them like doormats rather than like equal partners, which they should be, even if they are more obedient.
That is indeed an interesting premise. At the moment however, I am skeptical 🙂 I would be very interested in reading more about it though. If you remember the source, please send me a link.
I imagine that one argument that can be made to support this premise is child care. If women want to be out there power levelling it up like the men, who is going to stay home and take care of the kids, or would such women even want to have kids. Another very interesting article topic.
Re Stress free: You are right Cindy. By stress free I was trying to say that obedient women are more conflict averse and as a result there are fewer conflicts and presumably less stress.
But you are definitely right that when paired with an extreme, self-interested, and assertive personality, that could lead into a very stressful situation where the obedient personality is always under attack, which could ultimately lead to abuse. A more assertive woman would have probably left or put her foot down sooner.
I will have to add this into the hub. Thanks for pointing it out.
I am attracted to a strong woman. I’ve never thought the “yes dear” woman that can’t make a decision or won’t make a decision is good for anyone. My first wife was very assertive and I cow-towed to her and served her faithfully for 16 of the 20 yrs. we were married but it was never enough. I would do dishes but if she ran into a spoon or something in another room she would tell me it was as if I didn’t do anything to help her. My current wife is strong as well but she will appreciate my help when I cook or clean. The house is her house and she runs it but says I am the “head of the house”. This is all in the Biblical model and I love it. She can get me to do just about anything and smile while I do it. I could ask her to do just about anything and she will do what I ask. We both try to use our brains and she deferrs to me for final “up in the air” matters. She handles the money because I stink doing it and she does a wonderful job. She is my ideal woman.
no body – you are a very lucky man so find someone who is so compatible with you. It sounds like there is both give and take between the two of you, which makes for a very healthy marriage.
I am happy for you and also slightly envious 🙂
Thank’s Aya. I’m not saying that Christian men that love their wives are a dime a dozen but we are out there, and serving our sweethearts with joy because everyday we have with them is a gift from God.
I don’t see letting men do things for you as obedience. If anything it makes them feel like a hero which has nothing to do, in my opinion, with whether a woman is obedient or not. Doing exactly what they tell you to do is.
Exactly true! It seems like there are several different threads going on here:
1. Obedient personality vs. assertive personality – which more relates to doing what others tell you to do.
2. Should women accept or not accept unsolicited male help – opening doors and such which some women do not like.
3. Using obedience as a manipulation strategy to get what you want – which as Jewels and others pointed out is usually employed by women with a more natural assertive personality.
They are all related, but also different issues.
Aya, yes some assertive women may be playing obedient to her macho male counterpart knowing full well that they’re easily tricked into obedience, but when there’s a power imbalance in a relationship you have to wonder what the cost is. The costs tends to be tender, intimate moments.
Writer Rider,
You bring up another interesting related topic – does there have to be an equal balance of power for a relationship to succeed?
Some people want to have relationships that are almost 50/50, but I think there are others who want something else. Both I think, can work out well and preserve those tender moments, as you put it so well.
I think the key to success is in being flexible and appreciating your other half for all of the things that he/she does for you.
How much assertiveness is good before the assertive person starts to totally over-power the obedient partner? Then the trouble starts.
What an interesting question. You are right that different people will have different tolerances for assertiveness and obedience in their partner and to a lesser degree in their friends and coworkers.
I have a more assertive personality so I think that my partner gives more into the relationship. However, I greatly appreciate him, and I am trying to scale down my own assertive level. As long as both sides are willing to try, then there can be a meeting somewhere in the middle. 🙂
I think women can be both assertive and obedient -depending on the situation and their mood- just as men can do the same. I find the ability to change from one to another more exciting than being only on one extreme.
Hello Princessa, I definitely agree with you. I think every one of us is a mixture of both assertive and obedient. It is rare, however, to find someone who is really in the middle. Most of the time people are closer to one end or the other.
The other interesting point that Diana, Shadesbreath, and you bring up is “choosing” to be obedient as a strategy. Definitely an interesting topic to consider and write about.
Choosing to be obedient to lure the male species. Now that is just darn manipulative. And you can see why men love them. Clear cut and direct really. Batting the eyelashes and feigning weakness – geez! I personally hate that, I find it a lowly exercise by women. But it’s so effective. And so in that situation is the obedient woman really being aggressive.
I think the assertive woman cuts through the bull. “You want to get together? I’m on top!”
What you said made me think of the movie Memoirs of a Geisha. I don’t think I would consider any of the geisha girls depicted there as being particularly obedient, yet that was the only role that was open to them, and they used what was available to make a better life for themselves.
Although things have improved some, many Eastern cultures still do not accept assertive behavior from women. So women in that situation must use what is available and what is most effective.
And yes I think you are right that many of the women who use obedience as a strategy are often more assertive women who know what they want and are willing to do what it takes to achieve their goals, as in the case with the geisha girls.
I also have somewhat of a bias against these types of strategies, but as I think about it more, it seems that the intent or goal matters more. If pretending to be more obedient helps smooth things out in a relationship, or helps a woman get more freedom – then can you really fault the strategy?
Aya, I don’t see manipulation in any form as a positive. I’m not a game player. I’m more an up-front kinda girl. Just say it. Be honest. I don’t believe in pretending to be something or feel something you’re not just to get something you want. Because in the end, the real personality is going to come out and then you’re dealing with a change in the rules, which really isn’t fair to either partner.
In reference to another hub I read earlier today about “Men are Slackers”, some guys are into the conquest thing. It’s all about how much power he has over a woman. And some are practiced enough with it that they can actually, in the process, convince the girl they’re this caring, sweet, full-of-heart guy. But if that’s their real intention, it’ll come to an abrupt halt when he sees just how far it can go and moves on to another conquest. A perfect example of assertive and obedience as a game.
But that’s not to say women can’t do the same thing. I’ve just not experienced it from a woman (for obvious reasons).
A/o as a character trait and how to best handle it in a committed relationship, I think, is a totally different subject than using a/o as a game-playing tool in the dating world.
Just my opinion.
Hi Laughing Mom,
I agree. Both are very interesting subjects for discussion though.
Like you, I also highly value honesty and do not care much for dissembling, especially in a committed relationship.
However, I don’t think that manipulation is either right or wrong.
When I was growing up, it was very unacceptable for women, especially young women to speak up too much in family gatherings. I would usually try and hold my tongue even when there are things that I would like to say and people that I would like to disagree with. Then perhaps later, when there are fewer people, I would test the waters and see what people really thought of the issue and even try to convince them.
Is that manipulation? In a way, it is, because I was artful in my approach to fulfill a self purpose. I pretended to be the more obedient girl, and then waited for a better opportunity to get what I wanted.
I think all of us manipulate to a lesser or greater extent. When we put on makeup or a cute dress is that a kind of manipulation?
I don’t think that all types of manipulation are bad, but as you pointed out, some of them can be. Sometimes, being overly manipulative can also hurt us and our relationships. As with all other things it may be a matter of knowing when to use it, how to use it, and what to use it for.
What do you think?
Wow, Aya. You make some good points. I think it’s a great discussion topic, and a very excellent article.
I’ll back down on my ‘manipulation is always wrong’ stance based on your explanation. You’re right. It was much the same way with me growing up. Accept what is given as truth and take it with a smile and without a comment. I wasn’t brave enough until I was well into my teens to challenge that, though. You seem to be a stronger person.
Very interesting hub (and cool graphics). Personally, I think a obedient partner makes things easier, but frankly, its nice to just let go sometimes and let someone else do the driving, as it were.
On a literary (and perhaps, by that, historical as well) note, it seems that in “subservient” societies, or any society where the roles are clearly defines, excepting the notable exceptions that make for great news stories, etc…. Women developed skills to control their environments. Subtlety was the woman’s art. Nelly Dean from _Wuthering Heights_ being a prime (if extreme) example.
For myself
Hi Shadesbreath, It is good to see you again.
I love Wuthering Heights! It is one of my favorite stories when I was growing up. Nelly Dean didn’t make much of an impression on me though, but then that is precisely your point.
What you call subtlety, I suppose others may call manipulation.
As I think about it, there are many manipulation techniques and some are probably more acceptable than others. I am curious though, from a male perspective, if you found that you have been manipulated by your wife or close female friend, how would you take it?
I may write an article about this! 🙂
Well, we’re talking about “assertive” vs. “obedient” here, and if one is about power (I think control when I hear that word) and the other is about a lack of it, then in a world where men are over all physically larger and hormonally agressive, manipulation is a perfectly acceptable form of excercising one’s need for control, or at least some vestige of power in one’s life. It’s like how people hate snakes for using “poison” or hate wolves or foxes for “cunning.” To suggest that “manipulation” is somehow less… what, honorable? fair? admirable? is to, in my opinion at least, be viewing and valuating that trait/ability through a male-wrought lens. Are lions and horses really the only noble critters? Gotta be big and strong and powerful to be the cool animal? Anything less forthcoming is bad?
Just a thought. As for Nelly, if you read that novel closely and watch how much power Nelly has, you might have some fun deciding if men have any real advantage after all. Nelly makes everything happen. Patience and cleverness over brute strength and money. It is a great book. 🙂
As for the “my wife manipulated me” question, well, she does it all the time. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. One doesn’t have to see the poison glands to know the snake has a nasty bite. I try to keep my eyes open, but probably get a great deal more comfort from having no clue most of the time that I have just been worked. I can live with it. 🙂
Shadesbreath,
You say so many interesting things!
Ok, I think that most people, men and women, view “manipulation” to be bad, because associated with it is some notion of coercion or duplicity. Personally, I am very interested in the social psychology surrounding positive communication, which really is just “manipulation” although once people hear manipulation they usually shut down, and walk out of the room.
I don’t really see manipulation as good or bad per-se, it is just a type or strategy of communication. It can be used for both good and bad. If an argument is about to erupt and somebody steps in and tries to diffuse the situation, is that manipulation? In some ways it is, but overall it is a good thing. Same thing goes for when a wife is “handling” her husband because she thinks that he may be making a big mistake. 😉
I also do not think that manipulation is solely a female trait. I think both sides use it. Certainly I have seen many manipulative men at work. There is certainly a lot of bootlicking at work. The interesting thing is that everybody *knows* that it is bootlicking, but it still works. In fact, the higher ups expect a certain amount of it. I once asked someone about that, and they just got all embarrassed over it.
I will definitely have to go back to Wuthering Heights and pay closer attention to Nelly. It is difficult to take eyes off Heathcliff tho 🙂
I totally agree with you that both genders use it, and you have hit the nail on the head when you say it cuts both ways, good and bad. The same can be said for brute force (stereo typically male) power. Bullying is bad, but stepping in and punching some mugger in the face to save a poor damsel in distress is not. So ultimately, it comes down the much squishier dynamic of human relationships: intent matters, methods not so much.
Which I suppose is probably a massive deviation from the point above, so, I go back to it by saying, there is not much hawter than a sumptuous vixen clad in shimmering leather standing long-legged and dictatorial above you commanding you to please her. I’m fine with that.
😛
I agree with you for the most part. There are some methods that are just unacceptable though, no matter the intent. I suppose that is the debate now with the whole torture issue.
I think nature has made women basically softer and more accepting- you know the old saying- women are the hearts of the family and men the head. Men feel they need to be more macho and aggressive. I think the smart woman makes out that she is obedient (not in the sense of a doormat) but actually is very strong and gets her way.
Diana, that is very interesting. I have been thinking about Michelle Obama. I don’t think anyone would call her obedient, and yet she is taking the more supportive role to her husband’s career.
I suppose Hillary Clinton could be another example, but then she took a very active role in the White House, and now her husband is supporting her career.
This is in contrast to Laura Bush who took a more backseat approach.
I have to say that I admire both Hillary and Michelle a lot more. I guess I am a product of my culture 🙂
I’m all for the husband to be the leader of the household. In most cases, he’s the main breadwinner and the one who shoulders most of the responsibility. My belief is that to support that, the wife should be the one to keep the order in the home. Keeping the kids, making the meals, running the errands, doing the laundry….. But I don’t believe that is her only role, and that she too deserves a say in it all.
Every once in awhile I’ll hear that random comment about how wives are supposed to be obedient. But when he finds his pillow and a blanket out on the front porch, he shuts up.
LOL!
What do you think about the case where the woman is also working and there are no kids? Would you expect the man to contribute just as much with the housework? Also, what do you think of the stay-at-home dad?
I think everyone’s relationship is different and they each have to work out the terms for themselves.
My oldest daughter showed up 9 months after we were married, so we didn’t have a whole lot of “no kids” time after marriage, but we did live together before we were married. I worked full time, just like he did. I still took care of most of the housework because that’s how I was raised, and I enjoy doing it. It’s a stress reliever for me to grab a bottle of bleach and scrub the you-know-what out of the tile or the counters or the toilets. And nothing feels or smells better than warm-from-the-dryer clothes. There’s something satisfying to me about doing laundry. Maybe I’m just sick. But if I was working full time and my husband was at home with the kids, I’d probably expect him to do a little more.
But that’s just me. What do you think?
Laughing Mom,
I have to say that I am not really big on house chores. I definitely prefer writing to house chores! 🙂
I don’t have any children. We do have some dogs and I am very happy to take care of them.
I have a more assertive personality, which does lead to some issues so I have been trying to temper it and move more to the middle. Still, obedience is not something that comes easily to me.
I grew up in a very Eastern culture, so there was that expectation of obedience. Never really liked that. This was one of the key reasons why I came over to the States for college.
My dad is very cool though. He always encouraged me to go for what would make me happiest. He was very supportive of me studying abroad, which is somewhat unusual given the culture.
That’s a great attitude, Aya. I most definitely believe that you should never expect anyone to be someone they are not. I’ve lived with that long enough to know how miserable that can make someone. If you’re an assertive personality, go with it. But find a partner who is willing to go with it, too. Don’t settle for someone who thinks they could learn to live with it or you’ll both wind up unhappy.
Oh, and you’re right. writing is a little more fun than chores.
Thanks Laughing Mom! 🙂
How about somewhere in between. A good “partner.”
Writer Rider, You are probably right that somewhere in between is probably best and will bring the best results. However, it is difficult to find people who are truly in-between.
I am trying to work more towards the middle but it is tough work to fight your natural temperament.
There’s a saying “Nice girls go to heaven, bad girls go everywhere.” Very true.
Jewels, thanks for dropping by. I love that song! So are you a good girl or a bad girl? 😉
LOL. I’m a bad girl. I can only be a nice girl for short periods of time. It’s just not me. I mainly get in trouble with other women, not men, and it’s not intentional. I am just me and I think I come across as too assertive. So assertive fits, a firey woman.
lol Jewels. I am the same way. You bring up a really good point which is that other women tend to be more put off by assertive women than men. I guess that has to do with our societal expectations again.
I always find it strange that quite often it is the women who perpetuate practices that are repressive to women in general.
I’m for obedient when I want a new tool…..assertive when I don’t want to mow the yard! 🙂
Hahaha Tom. Just get one of those automatic mower things. They can be pretty attractive too if you look at them from the right angle 😉
I agree that being assertive and/or obedient are both influenced by culture and personal beliefs. But at this age and time, it’s how you play your cards to reap the "benefits" from both behaviours.
Btw, cool pics so I dig them 😀
That is very true. I suppose the art to a successful relationship is to know when to be assertive and when to be obedient. It is sometimes difficult though to fight your natural temperament though.
Thanks for digging my pictures. I think I probably spent more time generating them than on writing the article 😀