Would you rather be an assertive woman or an obedient woman?
Would you rather have a relationship with an assertive woman or an obedient woman?
In most cultures, assertiveness is valued a lot more than obedience. This is certainly true with men. Obedient men are usually considered weak or womanly.
When it comes to women, however, things become less clear.
Source: Assertive or Submissive
Obedient Women, Culture, and Religion
Many Eastern cultures value obedient women a lot more than assertive women.
However, obedience in this case is more of an expectation or societal norm, rather than a choice. Obedience is not seen as anattractive quality that everyone should aspire to; certainly the men do not aspire to it. Instead, it is something that a good woman should be.
Western cultures have the same bias with regards to assertiveness being better than obedience, but there is less pressure for women to be obedient. Strangely however, Western religions, in particular Christianity and Judaism have similar expectations of obedience from women as do Eastern cultures.
Even more surprising is that Eastern religions such as Buddhism and Hinduism are more in step with Western culture, and do not demand obedience from their women.
Assertive vs. Obedient
Being assertive is a more valued property than obedience because evolutionary wise, assertive societies are more successful.
Assertive societies with strong leaders tend to gain more territory, capture more resources, and spread more of their culture than obedient or passive societies, which are more likely to become conquered.
As a result, our prevailing culture, is one that values being assertive over being obedient.
Assertive men and women are more likely to acquire and accumulate more resources than obedient men and women. Since evolutionary success is commonly used as a yardstick for measuring our lifetime success, it is the assertive people who win.
Is an Assertive Woman Superior to an Obedient Woman?
Because of this evolutionary perspective, many of us see assertive women as being superior to obedient women.
However, human society has progressed beyond this evolutionary directive that is fueled by conflict and survival. Today, we live in relativepeace, and most nations no longer harbor ambitions of land expansion and conquest. Instead, nations try to cooperate and trade for the betterment of all.
Since we are moving away from a model of conflict to a model of cooperation, it makes sense to re-evaluate the roles of assertive women and obedient women in our society.
Advantages of Obedient Women
1. Obedient women have a larger social circle.
Obedient women tend to have a larger circle of friends. They are less threatening, and much more enjoyable as companions because they are willing to go with the flow. In contrast, an assertive woman will create more strife and dissension.
As a result, obedient women have a larger support system, and are arguably happier because of the friendships that they naturally attract. Whenever there is a crisis, she can easily turn to her friends for comfort and support.
2. Obedient Women are compatible with more men.
Our prevailing culture is such that men are expected to lead and women are expected to follow. This usually gets enforced since childhood from children stories, school dynamics, as well as parental and societal expectations.
As a result, there are probably more assertive men, than there are obedient men.
Obedient women can get along with both types of men. Most obedient women prefer relationships with assertive men because they will complement each other’s strengths and weaknesses. However, because they are more easy going, obedient women can also forge successful relationships with more obedient men.
Assertive women, on the other hand, are likely to clash with assertive men, and as a result, have a smaller number of compatible mates to choose from.
3. Obedient women live a life with fewer conflicts.
Obedient women have a Zen-like nature. For the most part, they are happy to let others set the agenda, and they are happy to play a role in making that agenda a success.
This does not mean that the obedient woman will just take on a supporting role. In fact, she may assume the bulk of the heavy lifting to ensure that the plan succeeds.
An obedient woman prefers to take things as they come rather than try to bend things to her will. This natural Zen-like quality makes her life more worry free, and frequently leads to greater happiness.
However, as pointed out bycindyvine, this assumes that both people in the relationship care enough for each other that they want to keep mutual hurt to a minimum.
Unfortunately, if an obedient woman enters into a relationship with a self-centered male, who is also abusive, then she may find herself trapped under his barrage of attacks, with little alternative but to accept it.
In contrast a more assertive woman would have ended the bad relationship early on and saved herself a lot of pain.
4. Obedient women are able to live in greater harmony with the world.
Obedient women are usually better at resolving conflicts and living in harmony with the people around them.
In life, there will be many instances where conflict occurs. During times of conflict, somebody has to back down and take a more passive position. If this does not occur, the conflict will escalate and end up hurting everyone involved.
Opting to back away from a possibly explosive situation does not make an obedient woman weak. Rather, it is the most expeditious way to bring the conflict to an end and restore harmony with the least amount of emotional damage.
It is a mistake to assume that obedient women do not have any needs or goals of their own.
They simply value harmony over conflict and are willing to put their own egos on hold to achieve that harmony.
Advantages of Assertive Women
1. Assertive women are more successful at accumulating resources.
Assertive women are better at accumulating resources including money, fame, and material goods. There is a lot of competition for resources, so it takes an assertive personality to not only acquire those resources, but also to hold on to them.
Assertive women tend to hold high-powered jobs, and are comfortable leading large teams of men and women towards their vision of what is right.
2. Assertive women are more likely to bring on change.
Assertive women have their own vision of how things ought to be. They are also willing and able to do whatever it takes to achieve that vision.
When an assertive woman disagrees with current societal norms, she will not back down or be held back by criticism. Instead, she has the confidence and spirit to forge ahead and fight for change.
In the end, assertive women have done much to create a less repressive social environment for women everywhere. It is a good thing that we have women who will speak out for themselves and for all other women.
3. Assertive women are confident and sure of themselves.
Assertive women do not look to others for confirmation and approval. They are less concerned about what others think and want, and more concerned about their own needs and goals.
Confidence begets more confidence.
As a result, assertive women are able to fight through great adversity, and emerge with greater strength than before.
Assertive Women vs. Obedient Women
So which is better – assertive women or obedient women? Which should you aspire to be? Or which should you look for in a relationship?
Most women are not one or the other. They usually have elements of both. However, their temperament, upbringing, and experiences may push them towards one end or the other.
As with all things, balance is crucial. We do not want to be too assertiveand not give way when we should. We also do not want to be too obedient so that none of our own needs and goals are met.
Every individual has a different equilibrium assertive/obedient level, and this level may change as we change and the people around us change.
What is most important is to always be open to both of these qualities, and not just accept the flawed belief that being assertive is always superior.
I am always obedient. As a woman I am taught that I must always be obedient.
“Even more surprising is that Eastern religions such as Buddhism and Hinduism are more in step with Western culture, and do not demand obedience from their women.”
A better way to frame that sentence is “Western culture has caught up with and/or plagiarized from Buddhism and Hinduism regarding Women;s rights and taken it to insane levels!”
Women don’t be obident anymore because men come in and try to take advantage of that obidence. Why are we always talkimg about what the women should be doing? Why not talk about what the men should be doing. Because if you think about it men don’t act like men these days but lil boys who want their cake and eat it too.
I’d be MUCH more likely to date a submissive girl over an assertive one. Assertive women are one of the biggest turn offs for me. However, I would much prefer a woman who was both submissive and assertive over one who was just submissive. Women who are just assertive, I don’t even give a first glance. Women who are submissive, I take a long time to determine my feelings. But a woman who was both assertive and submissive would be easy to talk to and date.
Well one thing is being submissive and another is jut being dumb. And one is being assertive and know what you want and then there’s being brutal and careless. You can be submissive and not dumb. If your husband sais I don’t want you to do this unless there’s a good reason behind it I’m doing it anyway. You can still have new ideas be active and striving and ambitious and spontanious and yet submissive at the same time. Be submissive cut the fighting if husband said no we can’t eat out because we got to save money, then amen! We can’t eat out there’s a good reason behind it. And my husband is right and I’m right behind his desision 100 percent even though I really wanted that burger But if he sais you can’t go out cause I said so.. Ummm… Sorry but I’m going anyways cause your just being weird and you need to cut it out.
Assertive women are more interesting, they can be independent , and many men are more interested in them.
Obedient women get boring, because they let someone else ,do all the decision making.
I LOVE assertive women, have always been attracted to them and am submissive to them wanting to fulfill their wishes and needs, I only wish it was easier to find women that appreciate that.
Greetings, Ms. Aya and fellow readers.
I share a story with the author…with an additional slice of verbal and physical abuse in my childhood years. Ferocity came before meekness, where I surmised women were expected to be meek and obedient, traits that also carried potential to attract men. As someone who has been beaten into the ground by men and women of all ages, my epiphany is that a backbone and a bowed head go hand-in-hand to make a strong character. Balance. It is balance that tries self-control to stabilize its limits.
Unfortunately, as I am overlooked, ignored, and put in the corner daily, I have come to fear any assertion, be it through my own persona or the seemingly aggressive faces that haunt my quiet temperament. The dreams and goals aforementioned have passed into oblivion and my only wish is to be left alone at my natural peace. Apathy. Apathy is the result of my extremity.
By the way, I enjoyed stumbling upon your well-researched articles and stunning artwork. I respect the effort. I’ve been drawing more-or-less realistic “anime” people for several years and cannot nail proper proportions for figures…haha. God bless you.
My final thought rests in preference. Some men prefer one or the other, but girls, don’t change to impress the men. Flip the situation. You have your own preference of men.
You must be a writer….extremely wonderful to read your words ..thank you
I really don’t understand which men like better because men like super stars who are assertive and cool and when they watch them they say WHOA hot … but in real life they marry an obedient woman i really don’t get it
The success or failure of any type of women has nothing to do with if she is assertive or obedient. Most assertive women fail to make a good impression on Mom. And men fearing his mom’s disapproval will more likely take the more obedient woman to his mom. The only important factor is she self centered or will she be helpful to a husband? He may love the assertive type for having a good time. But when we settle down for marriage, it seems logical to choose the other type. Even obedient women can be self centered. So forget the obedient or assertive labels and look for other-centered.
Not always, lots of men marry the assertive woman, and value her strong self confidence and equal partnership.
We do? I’ve never found a single Western celebrity attractive before. Ever. Let alone their assertive personalities. The assertiveness of them is one thing that makes me even more disinterested.
Some guys might do that because they want to sleep with the hot assertive girl because they have some weird fantasy like that (I’d have no difficulty declining a “hot” assertive celebrity asking to sleep with me), but a more “obedient” woman feels more like a wife. When I say “obedient” I’m not talking about acting like a servant. I’m just talking about the type of obedience and submission that partners, both male and female, show each other when they’re married.
I am a little dismayed,in fact totally angry and please don’t anyone get their feelings all hurt when I write this but, I am a Christian woman who believes in following God’s plan. But you all know that the man is to serve his wife in a loving sacrificial way, which if you are able to understand these general terms, this means that there are many times when he will bend over for his woman. It’s not always that the woman is to be obedient. We over use the term…..and boy do we over use it. This is why women have gotten so filled with anger. God knew what He was doing when he devised His plan. You all keep overlooking God’s whole plan. Go back and read His whole word on a marriage!! So if a man loves a woman and she has her own mind, he can still love and respect her.His feelings don’t have to be so sensitive. The world is not all about a man or a husband. there are areas where he should not tread. We must remember that respect goes both ways. We are always talking about not hurting our man’s feelings and respecting him. People please don’t do that. See….we get into trouble when we harp on the woman being obedient part but never talk about the part that God instructed men on, which tells him to love his wife as Christ loved the Church. We have an over abundance of articles in this country and this world that always seem to lecture, only the woman on her responsibilities. But we must be fair and tell the men what their responsibliites are too. It is okay if the man serves his woman too. That’s part of his role.
And you all wonder why there are women who post comments with rude statements. And you all attack back, because you think that women should not have opinions about their own business. We are all mixed up and grossly unfair to our points of view and treatment of women. I am nice, but I am not easily intimidated by any man or any woman. We have got to do it right.
“See….we get into trouble when we harp on the woman being obedient part but never talk about the part that God instructed men on, which tells him to love his wife as Christ loved the Church.”
Hear! Hear! and amen! You referred there to Eph 5:25. Also there is 1Pet 3:7, which mentions “giving honor to the wife, as unto the weaker vessel”. “Giving honor” means “to esteem, reverence, or respect”, which would include deference (obedience) to her wishes.
As concerning the article, I think it was very good, except that I believe that it has “assertive” confused with “aggressive”, especially when one considers how the “assertive” woman is visually depicted in this article (whip and all).
Correction…the “assertive” woman (actually “aggressive”) woman was wielding a sword, not a whip, as I said in my first reply. My bad.
When a woman submits, it takes from her personality. I know women, that are submissive, but they tell me, there is always an inner resentment. A woman wanted to go back to college, and her husband said no. It was about his ego, and not God’s plan, he didn’t want her to explore her abilities, because then , she would in his words “not want to submit anymore” .
This is a different day and age, and submission , has been proven to cause marriage problems, the husband gets bored. Why should men have to do most of the work, I don’t need a man hovering over me, telling me what to do.
I think obedient women work better to maintain family happy and stable in the long term. Besides I like this kind of girls, they are cute.
CUTE, haha. I also prefer obedience over assertive and a man who prefers assertive really puzzles me. Like he want’s to be dominated and that isn’t manly for me.
Hi Aya,
Well, I just created a hubpages account, (annoyingly, it doesn’t seem to allow underscores in usernames, so I can’t claim my prior anonymous posts) in no small part due to your excellent blog.
After reading this article and posting here, I’ve since read many of your other articles, and each one gives me a new way of looking at things that I never thought about before. Your insight and perspective on relationships is unique and entertaining.
I think many of us (or at least I do…) have much to learn in this subject, and you have so much knowledge in this area to enlighten us.
…Not to mention the the cool CG graphics!
Anyway, obviously I don’t know you personally, but keep on being awesome! 🙂
Thanks so much for the lovely comment, and a BIG welcome to HubPages!
It is great to have someone so positive and supportive in the community. I am looking forward to reading more of your experiences and ideas.
Good to meet ya! 😀
I won’t deny it, I’m a male who is totally attracted to obedient women. They really turn me on, and I don’t care if people give me a hard time for feeling that way. I also don’t understand why that word is considered a pejorative.
I like a woman who is agreeable and puts others ahead of herself, even if that makes her not seem ambitious. I don’t want to mistreat her or anything of the sort, and I certainly don’t think they are unintelligent. They are doing the world a service by helping others, many of whom are more opinionated (and I’ll admit, more selfish) than they are, and I have a tremendous respect for that sort of group ethic they exibit. Women like this are likely to make good mother, because they are (most likely) willing to stay home and take care of children.
I don’t think I’m passive or agressive, I only want to treat her with respect, and I’d rather she compliment my role rather than try to challenge or compete with it.
Also, there are lots of men out there who are attracted to the more aggressive types, so no worries to women who don’t fit that archetype. I just so happen to not be among those men.
Finally, I don’t think that women who are intellectual or scientific types are excluded from this role; I think that some women are happy doing this role, and others are not.
Basically, a simplified analogy could be made to music?
Harmony vs Counterpoint, or alternatively one of these three scenarios:
Polyphonic/Contrapuntal Texture:
– Both melodies/people are assertive and have equal importance. I don’t know how this would work outside of music, but I’m sure that there are at least a few cases.
Homophonic Texture (Melody Complimented by Harmony):
– Male is assertive (the melody)
– Female is assertive (the melody)
Ok, so my analogy is a bit silly, but I had to mention it. It was the first thing I thought when I read this article, actually.
The comparisons that you made to various religions was interesting as well.
I really like the music analogy.
I think it exemplifies very well how being “assertive” is not necessarily better, but simply one role in the music of our life.
It also shows that the “assertive role” is often fluid. At certain times, one instrument may take the lead and then fade away, whilst another takes its place. As you point out, it need not be based on conflict, but rather can be based on cooperation.
Thanks! Great food for thought.
I really have respect for traditional roles aswell, I like what you are saying. As a woman I would like to be submissive to my husband and wouldn’t mind staying home with the children, cooking and cleaning. I read in Proverbs 31 about the Godly woman who wakes up early to make sure her entire house is fed. That is very much the woman I would like to be but roles have been severly reversed. There are not many men that are willing to take care of their wives, wives should have seperate bank accounts and thus forced into the work force. This submisive role is mostly possible with a man that earns a good income and a hard working woman. I pray I may find myself in such a role one day, want to know what it’s like to be the woman of Proverbs 31.
If submission is such an attractive characteristic to you, are you a submissive man?
I have never read anything more idiotic and misinformed in my life. First, you need to understand the difference between assertive, and aggressive. Second you really need to do some research into gender studies. I noticed your article has no sources for your so-called “facts”
Women should want to be obedient because thats what men like?! Are you kidding me? Maybe its the men who should change, not the strong, confident, self-assured woman.
Have you ever recieved any post-seconday education? I doubt it because this article reads like it was written by someone who never made it to grade 10 english class.
Dear Cassidy,
This is simply *my take* on the issue. There is no need to be quite so rude, verbally abusive, or aggressive with your response.
If you are interested in discussing your own ‘flavor’ of ~facts~, then you are welcome to do so in a civil fashion. You are also welcome to back up your arguments with whatever you learned from your gender studies class. However, personal attacks are pointless, and does not reflect well on those who use it. One who is truly confident need not resort to name calling, and faulty ad hominem reasoning.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
Also, please read what I said carefully. My points are as follows-
1. Our current society values assertive men more.
2. Therefore, it stands to reason that men would try to foster this assertive trait.
3. There will likely be more conflict between two assertive personalities.
4. Therefore, it stands to reason that there will be less conflict between an assertive male and a more obedient female.
If you want to post here, then I ask that you at least be civil. Additional rude and pointless attacks will be deleted.
I think there are men who like to be the assertive one in a relationship, and men who like the woman to take control. There are of course the extremes: men who want practically a slave/woman with no opinion and no disagreement. And men who want to be completely owned. I think with the extremes there are obviously issues there. But a successful “ideal” relationship is one in which both partners contribute and are respected by the other. And most importantly, valued and loved unconditionally.
I see it over and over in movies. Man sees independent girl, sassy intelligent, who does not need a man. Man and woman fall in love, and that is when man wants the woman to still be herself, but allow him some authority in the relationship. So in a way he wants a little of both. I don’t think it’s an exact balance, and that it depends on the man.
I really feel like my partner expects both at times. It’s confusing. He wants to be the man and know he’s respected and ultimately give the final word, but I think otherwise he wants me to be my own woman and be independent. Sometimes I feel like he wished I was more assertive than I naturally am. But if I get too sassy and don’t need him at all, he gets hurt and withdrawals. So I really feel maybe men wants the best of both.
the funniest part if i can say funniest, is that some men go from one type to the other, can leave an obedient for an assertive and vice-versa. maybe ideal is to try both n then decide what suits best. in my case i had a sweet love-dovy relationship with a loving caring boyfriend who in the end cheated on me with a manipulative controlling bitch. i guess he needed someone to decide for him n not “feel with him” i can understand. now my pain is gone but before it was a struggle for me to be compared on a personality level with the one who replaced me. facts are our relation lasted 3 years while theirs was more..volatile but who knows maybe more intense? i sympathyse coz i am over him totally but myself can go from controlling man to a sweet man who fills me with his tender loving care:) human…my best of is a mix of both types, just like everyone i guess.wont go for heartbreakers for the sake of the challenge n wont go for boring nice guys either…
Obedient women do not have wider social circles. Nonsense. Why are there only two options for women? Both extremes indicate problems that need to be dealt with. Both men and women are fully capable of being assertive (aka healthy) without being either obedient or aggressive.
Perhaps you missed the part in the article where it says –
Another important point I should have made is that assertiveness does not equate to rudeness.
Oh please! The obedient woman is a complete idiot. No right thinking man wants a obedient dodo. Right thinking men love assertive women. Assertive women tell it like it is. No BS and pussyfooting.
I have been told that I lack tact-so what! I am happy and was successful. Obedient women are an endangered species and is going by way of the dinosaur. Even though I was quiet, I had a very strong argumentative side. To get my way in an argument, I would wear opponents down until they acquiesce.
As a child, I was told that I was stubborn and hardharded by my relatives. I was also told that I did not follow instructions well although I was an above average student all my life. I do not play well with others-so what! Iam me. Guess who was the most successful in my family-me! I believe in getting my way and to be successful. All the other obedient dolts in my family were failures in their jobs, never achieved much. Women, be assertive and people will respect you more. Amen.
I think that different people have different temperaments, different priorities in life, and different measures of what they consider to be success.
If everyone were assertive, then who would acquiesce. Everyone would be wearing each other down. 🙂
There is no one right way to live life. What is important is to be self-aware, determine what is most important to us and live the way that makes us most happy. But just because someone chooses a different path does not make them a dolt, and just because they do not have as much money or fame, does not make them inferior. People simply have different priorities.
Guess I am much too strong-willed to be obedient to anyone. Luckily my man can handle a woman as feisty as he is!